Chinese Microphone - China Chinese Microphone Manufacturer
Chinese Microphone WebSite Link:
http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
China GuangZhou TianTuo Microphone Manufacturing Co., Ltd WebSite:
http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
Microphone Products are: Wireless Microphones, Conference Microphones,
Headset Microphones, and Lapel Microphones, interview microphones,
wired microphones, musical instrument microphones, drum microphones,
teaching microphones, recording microphones, computer's USB
microphones and microphone accessories and So on.
A stirring story: EQ Mag's "Chinese Connection" by Yours
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3daudioinc Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Spring Hill, TN,
USA Posts: 13,858 A stirring story: EQ Mag's "Chinese
Connection" by Yours Truly If you haven't read the Gearhead
article that I wrote for the March issue of EQ Magazine, titled
"Chinese Connection," then you should. It's about im****ting mics from
China, with this article specifically targeting Chinese ribbon mics.
To view it from the EQ page, click here:http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?
storycode=13258Please read the story in full before responding in this
thread because what it has to say is the crux of this matter.I got an
email yesterday from the sales manager at EQ Magazine, and in it was
fo http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
rwarded an email from John Nady,
president of Nady Systems which is the company that sells the RSM-2
ribbon mic which we have talked about here. The letter was thoughtful
in tone, but contained certain words such as "dismay," "unhappy,"
"interfering," "personally insulting" and "undermining." Needless to
say, John was unhappy with the article. I have not asked permission to
quote the letter here so I won't. I offered this public forum to him
here so he could express his views. My initial response was
this:John,Would you be interested in discussing this matter publicly
on my forum? It's athttp://www.3daudioinc.com/3dbThere
has already
been a lot of discussion of ribbon mics, Chinese and otherwise, and
the people there are very interested and receptive to your
perspective. If so, just let me know. But take a look at the forum
first before you decide. You could do a search for the word "Nady" or
"ribbon mic" or "chinese ribbon." There have been lots of discussions
already.I seriously hope I did you no harm in my article. That's why
the conclusion stated "If you're looking for a project, try buying
from China. If you want a mic, just buy it from a dealer." That was my
ending summary and an opinion I definitely stand by.Just so you know,
I bought 10 ribbon mics from China, but I bought 12 of the RSM-2 from
Nady during the research for that article. You probably didn't know
that.John wrote me back this afternoon, concerning the harm that my
article did in cheapening Nady's contribution in making these mics
possible in the first place. And that an e-mail to him prior to
writing the article might have mitigated the potential damage and
losses that Nady might suffer as a result of its publication.Here is
the ****tion of his letter that he asked me to post. It was written by
John Nady and reflects his opinion.Nady's Innovation of Value Priced
Ribbon Mics.John NadyPresidentNady Systems, Inc. Over two years ago I
saw the potential of value priced ribbon microphones broadening the
use of this, up to then, somewhat esoteric and inaccessible technology
too a much wider market. I researched the technology of the classic
RCA and other vintage ribbon mics as well the some of the more modern
brands such as the AEA and Royer. I approached Alctron in China with
this idea and upon their agreement for our exclusivity under a written
Purchase Agreement subject to jurisdiction under California law, sent
them the necessary information and technology to proceed.
Unfortunately, in violation of this agreement, they almost immediately
started knocking off variations and selling to other US distributors,
including Yorkville, SM Pro Audio, ****nybox, PPA, et al, as well as
consortiums of end users willing to buy a few as 8 units, as outlined
in your article. Since realistically it was difficult to enforce this
agreement in China, with its self-protective legal system, we ****fted
our production to another factory and notified and legally went after
some of the early distributors, including PPA and Yorkville. We
reached a settlement with PPA, and the Yorkville litigation is
ongoing, pending resolution. In the meantime, due to the Wild West,
fast- and-loose nature of much of China production these days, several
other traders have jumped in to this market with more knockoffs. This
is not surprising considering that in China you can get counterfeit
versions of just about any branded product, including Shure wireless
and SM-58s, AKG and Sennheiser wireless mics, as well as numerous
other branded audio products, including some Nady units. You could
also get very accurate reproductions of Rolexes, Gucci bags, etc, etc,
and there is always a market for such sham goods. With regards to the
ribbon microphones now available, we hope potential customers would
consider the following:1. Ethical issues and fairness in selecting
products. I concede, however, that for a generation mostly raised on
free downloading of copyrighted materials this might not resonate as
much as I would hope. 2. Ultimately you get what you pay for. As
pointed out in your article conclusion, it really makes no sense to
nickel-and-dime when prices are so low already, especially from Nady,
considering the hassles and lack of service and sup****t later. You
didn't mention that the units you can buy direct are somewhat of a
lottery ticket,
since there is really no guarantee of quality and uniformity. This is
true even of the units from other distributors, your so called
"badgers", who have taken over some of our models, trying to cash in
on someone else's idea. They have spent little or no effort, other
than appearance items, on the development of this product, as we did,
and thus have no input as to the final product they are selling in
terms of quality, reliability etc. They are simply box movers in this
regard on these units. 3. Nady Systems continues to innovate this
product line in its ongoing mission of bringing innovative, high
quality ribbon mics to the masses. We offer five models currently,
with a proprietary tube ribbon mic of our own design (only one on
market at any price) ****pping shortly. Unless they knock that off
also, this will not be available from Alctron. We hope, therefore,
that fair-minded and sensible ribbon mic aficionados will see that it
is both to their advantage and the long-term advantage of this
emerging technology to sup****t Nady in our ongoing development of this
product line. No other distributors currently offering knockoffs can
make this claim.It was not my intention to discredit anyone with my
story. I was simply researching what I have noticed as a popular
trend. Neither is it my intention to discredit any product line or
manufacturer in this thread.I will, however, point out that my article
never mentioned the name of a single microphone company, Nady or
otherwise, or any Chinese manufacturing concern. It did not mention
any of Nady's competition that sells nearly identical products. It
gave no contact info for how to get in touch with any Chinese
manufacturer. And the summary suggestion from the story was to buy a
ribbon mic from a dealer, unless you wanted an adventure more than
just a microphone. In case you want adventure and to save a few (very
few) bucks, "Go East, Young Man," and find your microphone.John Nady
made it clear that he could see no ongoing value engaging in back and
forth forum http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
communications over
these issues. So I do not expect him to respond. My purpose in posting
this here is twofold. 1) To let you know that all pro audio press is
not tripe and regurgitation of press releases, and 2) to open an
honest and thoughtful (and respectful) discussion about the issues
raised. Your thoughts? __________________ Lynn Fuston3D Audio Inc.
Enter to win a FREE LaChapell 583s Tube Preamp HERE.Now offering
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3daudioinc #2 03-17-2006, 07:04 AM 3daudioinc Moderator Join Date: Aug
2001 Location: Spring Hill, TN, USA Posts: 13,858 Quote: Originally
Posted by John Nady I approached Alctron in China with this idea and
upon their agreement for our exclusivity under a written Purchase
Agreement subject to jurisdiction under California law, sent them the
necessary information and technology to proceed. Unfortunately, in
violation of this agreement, they almost immediately started knocking
off variations and selling to other US distributors, including
Yorkville, SM Pro Audio, ****nybox, PPA, et al, as well as consortiums
of end users willing to buy a few as 8 units, as outlined in your
article. Since realistically it was difficult to enforce this
agreement in China, with its self-protective legal system, we ****fted
our production to another factory and notified and legally went after
some of the early distributors, including PPA and Yorkville. We
reached a settlement with PPA, and the Yorkville litigation is
ongoing, pending resolution. In the meantime, due to the Wild West,
fast- and-loose nature of much of China production these days, several
other traders have jumped in to this market with more knockoffs. This
is not surprising considering that in China you can get counterfeit
versions of just about any branded product, including Shure wireless
and SM-58s, AKG and Sennheiser wireless mics, as well as numerous
other branded audio products, including some Nady units. You could
also get very accurate reproductions of Rolexes, Gucci bags, etc, etc,
and there is always a market for such sham goods. This is an
interesting point and one that I mentioned in my article. You can do
the design and have it manufactured inexpensively in China, but at the
risk of it showing up in your competition's catalog. I wasn't sharing
any secrets there. Quote: Originally Posted by John Nady With regards
to the ribbon microphones now available, we hope potential customers
would consider the following:1. Ethical issues and fairness in
selecting products. I concede, however, that for a generation mostly
raised on free downloading of copyrighted materials this might not
resonate as much as I would hope. I was not raised on free downloading
and issues of fairness and protecting intellectual property rights are
very much my concern. Obviously the Chinese manufacturers are less
concerned with it than even the manufacturers who offer clones of
other people's mics. Quote: Originally Posted by John Nady 2.
Ultimately you get what you pay for. As pointed out in your article
conclusion, it really makes no sense to nickel-and-dime when prices
are so low already, especially from Nady, considering the hassles and
lack of service and sup****t later. You didn't mention that the units
you can buy direct are somewhat of a lottery ticket, since there is
really no guarantee of quality and uniformity. This is true even of
the units from other distributors, your so called "badgers", who have
taken over some of our models, trying to cash in on someone else's
idea. They have spent little or no effort, other than appearance
items, on the development of this product, as we did, and thus have no
input as to the final product they are selling in terms of quality,
reliability etc. They are simply box movers in this regard on these
units. I am aware of the "lottery ticket" phenomenon that John
mentions. What he does not know is that I tested all 12 of the Nady
mics that I bought from his company to see how closely matched the
mics were. They were indeed very close. I also checked the 10 mics
that came from China to see how consistent they were. They were also
very close to each other. Close enough that I could have picked any
two of the total of 22 Chinese ribbons and used them as a stereo pair
without concern. Quote: Originally Posted by John Nady 3. Nady Systems
continues to innovate this product line in its ongoing mission of
bringing innovative, high quality ribbon mics to the masses. We offer
five models currently, with a proprietary tube ribbon mic of our own
design (only one on market at any price) ****pping shortly. Unless they
knock that off also, this will not be available from Alctron. We hope,
therefore, that fair-minded and sensible ribbon mic aficionados will
see that it is both to their advantage and the long-term advantage of
this emerging technology to sup****t Nady in our ongoing development of
this product line. No other distributors currently offering knockoffs
can make this claim. Royer showed me a tube ribbon mic at the AES show
two years ago, and I believe they are ****pping now. Although if the
"(only one on market at any price)" refers solely to the "of our own
design" ****tion of the statement, that statement is still true. But
Nady claiming to have the only tube ribbon mic on the market is not
correct.CORRECTION-3/17/05: I just spoke with John Jennings at Royer
and he told me even though they have taken advance orders for several
of their tube ribbon mics, they just decided to redesign the power
supply and make it smaller based on early tester's feedback. They
expect to be ****pping final product within a few months. By the way,
the Royer design dates back to 2000 according to John Jennings.
__________________ Lynn Fuston3D Audio Inc. Enter to win a FREE
LaChapell 583s Tube Preamp HERE.Now offering instant access to
selected comparison projects on the web at Direct Digital Downloads.
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posts by 3daudioinc #3 03-17-2006, 07:35 AM ozraves Gold Club Member
(1000+ posts) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Oklahoma City, OK , USA
Posts: 1,035 Lynn--I enjoyed the story. It's one of the reasons I keep
coming here. You actually think about this stuff. I appreciate your
efforts. I also want to thank you for posting up John Nady's comments.
__________________ StevenMojo PieThe recording magazine with gear
reviews, forums and blogs ozraves View Public Profile Send a private
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#4 03-17-2006, 07:44 AM Mike Derrick Old Timer Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: near Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 626 Lynn,Weren't you
basically sup****ting companies like Nady by saying that it'd be better
to leave the headaches to othersrather than going the route you did
and doing all the work yourself and realizing that you weren't
breaking even?That's what I got from reading your article. Maybe I
missed something...One thing I've learned about the internet and email
since I began using them, is how easy it is for us tomisunderstand
each other through just reading the printed word, and reading what we
want into those words.(or even our eyes skipping lines without
realizing it and the result giving the messsage a totally new
meaning!)I've done it, and had people do it to my words as well.
Hopefully in the future we (myself included) take the time to read a
little more carefully, and ask to clarify with each other when we
suspect something amiss.~ mike Mike Derrick View Public Profile Send a
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all posts by Mike Derrick #5 03-17-2006, 12:50 PM Wireline Platinum
Club Member (3000+) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Midland Tx Posts:
3,908 Man! Talk about opening up an entire CASE of worms...1.
Superlative article...informative, touch of humor (intended or
otherwise )...yet gets to the meat in a hurry....and I found nothing
offensive, nothing of questionable ethics by the author, or nothing
that was out of line...2. Nady's reaction: I think was to be
expected...I do not know for sure (no pun intended) but I believe that
Nady's approach to the audio world is to offer inexpensive versions of
what us end consumers want...they are making a little of everything,
none of which (that I have encountered) is consi
http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
dered as "hi end", "audiophile", etc... and this is fine. It is
unfortunate their ribbon mic design was made available to other
badgers (we dun't neeed no steenking badgers......) and I understand
their angst....but it was not the author's fault for re****ting what is
somewhat common knowledge, nor was it the magazine's fault for
carrying the story. I don't think Nady and Co were "outted" to the
high end crowd...maybe they wanted to keep this kind of information
rather low key....(sidebar: rebadging is not a new phenomenon: Norelco
C12s, for example...Altec badged EV RE16s for another...)3. This kind
of activity (I believe) has been the business model for many
companies...how many times have Samson, Behringer, etc, been sued for
reverse engineering a product, and reselling it as their design,
sometimes without nary a change to the product other than less
expensive components and labor? 4. Seeings how Nady is is direct
competiton with the other ChiCom mics mentioned, I can see how they
might feel...don't agree with it, but can at least understand
it...now, if they (Nady or any of the otherwise mentioned rebadged
versions) were competing against AEA or Royer, I would really have to
question their business approach...reality check, anyone? (Yes, I have
demo'd the mic in question, and put it back in its box and took it
back to the store within 2 hours - it wasn't bad, just not what I was
looking for)....5. There is room for everyone with legitamate business
motivations, niche or high end...6. Wonderful piece...touchy spot you
seem to be in, Lynn...folks wanting to blame the messenger and all...
__________________ Ken MorganMidland, Texas"Music Is the Sonic
Representation of Your Soul" Wireline View Public Profile Send a
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by Wireline #6 03-17-2006, 01:19 PM 3daudioinc Moderator Join Date:
Aug 2001 Location: Spring Hill, TN, USA Posts: 13,858 Quote:
Originally Posted by Wireline 6. Wonderful piece...touchy spot you
seem to be in, Lynn...folks wanting to blame the messenger and all...
It does seem to me that there is an underlying "read between the
lines" frustration at the way the Chinese have handled it. And that he
is venting at me. I mention it in the article and he mentions it to
me. Is it my fault that the problem exists because I wrote a story
exposing it?I don't know how much design time was spent on engineering
the RSM-2 and I don't have reason to doubt that John Nady did make a
contribution to the Chinese development of that mic. I almost hate to
bring this up, but several people have commented to me (other ribbon
mic manufacturers included) that the RSM-2 is a "cloned AEA R-84." The
motor assemblies of the two are nearly identical. I was reluctant to
believe it until I saw pictures of the insides of the two. (I've never
opened up either of mine.) If that is the case (with the emphasis on
the word IF), then it seems disingenuous of a company that copied an
existing product to be upset over the fact that other people are
selling the "copies" it commissioned. It would be like "cloning
clones."Has anyone seen the new RSM-3? Take a look.
http://www.nady.com/products/product...m3mics_pg.html
Does it bear any
resemblance to any other popular ribbon mics that are on the market
right now? Do you think that this is coincidental? You may notice that
the mic pictured has no microphone element in it, but is just an empty
shell. My perspective may be unique in that I have friends at four
different ribbon mic companies that share information with me that is
not available to the general public. Much of this is not information
that I can ever share publicly. I will say that only one of those four
companies im****ts mics from China. The other three are major players
whose original design mics are made here in the US. Not that I'm
taking sides, just wanting to make sure that readers realize that I'm
not dreaming this stuff up or reading it on the internet ("It must be
true. I read it on the internet!") __________________ Lynn Fuston3D
Audio Inc. Enter to win a FREE LaChapell 583s Tube Preamp HERE.Now
offering instant access to selected comparison projects on the web at
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posts by 3daudioinc #7 03-17-2006, 01:34 PM 3daudioinc Moderator Join
Date: Aug 2001 Location: Spring Hill, TN, USA Posts: 13,858
"Stuck in the middle with you" from a song by Stealer's
Wheel Now I have heard from the Chinese manufacturer who has heard
from one of his large US customers who is upset about the story and
its implication that these mics can be bought in quantities less than
thousands. __________________ Lynn Fuston3D Audio Inc. Enter to win a
FREE LaChape
ll 583s Tube Preamp HERE.Now offering instant access to selected
comparison projects on the web at Direct Digital Downloads. 3daudioinc
View Public Profile Send a private message to 3daudioinc Visit
3daudioinc's homepage! Find all posts by 3daudioinc #8 03-17-2006,
02:39 PM Haigbabe Gold Club Member (1000+ posts) Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia Posts: 1,118 It certainly looks like a case of
"shoot the messenger".For a start, I can't see anything in the article
that should make his hackles rise. The article is well written and
entertaining, not to mention most informative.And while I may feel a
degree of sympathy for Mr Nady, perhaps he is now discovering the down-
side to dealing with a country that has given him the op****tunity to
manufacture cheaply.The playing field is possibly not as level as he
first thought. Dealing with China etc can sometimes be a two-edged
sword. (Yes, I've worked there).Contracts: The large print giveth, the
small print taketh away.Haigbabe __________________ 3D VIP
#1adelaideclassical.com Haigbabe View Pu
http://www.chinese-microphone.com/
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homepage! Find all posts by Haigbabe #9 03-17-2006, 03:20 PM David
Klausner Old Timer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ft Wayne, IN Posts:
982 A certain innovative mic manufacturer has a capsule with some very
unique tweaks that they are having made in China. I asked the designer
about the dangers of showing these modifications to the Chinese, since
with the way they do business, there is no guarantee at all that those
capsules won't start showing up in other people's mics. The response
was that they were fully aware of the dangers, but to compete on
price, they had no choice.It's a very difficult situation, where
manufacturers are forced to look to China for manufacturing in order
to compete in the marketplace, yet they risk losing their intellectual
property in the process. China really has become the 400 lb. gorilla
in the world economy, and I'm not sure the West has any power (or even
strong enough interest) to take them on in terms of intellectual
property laws, artificial fixing of currency exchange rates, etc.
Where it will get really interesting (and it has already begun) is
when the Chinese workers decide they would really like to own some of
the kinds of things they are making and ex****ting... David Klausner
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posts by David Klausner #10 03-17-2006, 03:32 PM 3daudioinc Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Spring Hill, TN, USA Posts: 13,858
Quote: Originally Posted by David Klausner A certain innovative mic
manufacturer has a capsule with some very unique tweaks that they are
having made in China. I asked the designer about the dangers of
showing these modifications to the Chinese, since with the way they do
business, there is no guarantee at all that those capsules won't start
showing up in other people's mics. The response was that they were
fully aware of the dangers, but to compete on price, they had no
choice. I think that's a very unfortunate perspective. It's like
selling your land so you can afford to buy seeds to plant on the land
you sold. What good does possibly sacrificing your original design do
if you are marketing it based on its uniqueness, but by the time you
get it to market you may only have months to recoup your investment of
time and energy before your competition is selling the same product
for the same price or usually less?It's a very dangerous business
model and one that has little chance of success. The old saying
"cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.Other
manufacturers have considered doing the same in order to "compete"
financially in the marketplace. But in the end, keeping their
proprietary designs in house and made in America are the ways that
they have kept their customers happy and kept them "their" customers.
Would they have sold more if they were offering them at half price
after making them overseas? Sure. Would they be ahead for a few
months? Maybe. But what is the ultimate outcome of outsourcing the
manufacturing when their same product will end up being sold by dozens
of other "badgers?" Will it ultimately increase or decrease their
company's strength, sales and stability? I honestly doubt it would be
to their benefit.I have spoken to several manufacturers/designers
about this. We discussed it amongst ourselves at the Preamp Designer's
Summit. Even George Massenburg considered it briefly. And he discussed
it with us all. __________________ Lynn Fuston3D Audio Inc. Enter to
win a FREE LaChapell 583s Tube Preamp HERE.Now offering instant access
to selected comparison projects on the web at Direct Digital
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